John Barrand runs HR for the State of Utah—22,000 employees across corrections, health, safety, and government services.
When he started, he inherited a culture of bureaucracy, neutrality, and stagnation.
His challenge: how do you inspire engagement when you can’t offer big raises, bonuses, or startup perks?
Barrand’s answer was radical in its simplicity: be recklessly good.
Gratitude, candor, and systemic reinforcement became his playbook for building trust, cutting through politics, and proving that even government can innovate
🎧 Listen to the full episode below:
[EMBED]
00:04:00 – Why younger generations avoid government work
00:07:00 – Convincing 104 “CFOs” to fund HR initiatives
00:08:30 – Fighting cultural erosion in government
00:12:00 – Introducing the Innovation Fund
00:14:00 – Utah’s “Cardinals”: Compensation, Flexibility, Engagement
00:23:00 – How to disagree with your CEO—and still win trust
00:24:00 – Three moves that rebuilt employee trust fast
00:27:00 – The offsite that changed everything
00:32:00 – Vendor Days: How government created curiosity
00:42:00 – Why listening without action is worse than silence
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📓 Get The Playbook
When Barrand became Utah’s CHRO, one predecessor told him: “Once you realize you’re a monopoly, you’ll slow down.” That mindset was the problem.
So he flipped it. Barrand’s framework is built on three pillars:
1. Gratitude as System
Every meeting starts with a “gratitude minute.” His team writes 1,000 thank-you notes per month and passes a recognition flag between employees. Far from cheesy, these rituals softened conflict, created safety, and gave employees permission to care again.
2. Feedback Loops That Close
Barrand runs standups, open Zoom sessions, and rural listening tours. But the key isn’t just listening—it’s closing the loop. Employees hear back, even if the answer is “not yet.” This consistency builds trust across 22,000 employees and 3,800 managers.
3. Systemic Reinforcements
Culture can’t rest on goodwill. Barrand institutionalized his values:
Innovation Fund – turnover savings fund employee-led experiments.
Vendor Days – quarterly sessions where vendors pitch solutions directly to his team.
Customer Service Executive Orders – tying HR to constituent experience, not compliance.
His mantra: “Elevate and evolve the employee experience.”
This framework worked inside the most constrained HR environment imaginable—a public sector system where pay trails market by 10%, bonuses max out at $8k, and hiring takes 90 days. If it works there, it can work anywhere.
The lesson for leaders? You don’t need lavish perks or big budgets. You need gratitude that’s visible, feedback that loops back, and systems that make culture durable.
Want to connect with John? Connect with him on LinkedIn.
😍 Culture Crush
Barrand is inspired by:
Ashley Goodall – former CLO at Deloitte, author of Nine Lies About Work, who taught him that goals shouldn’t cascade—meaning should.
Michael Dowling – longtime CEO of Northwell Health, admired for grit and relentless standards.
Quote We Can’t Stop Thinking About
“Neutrality is not always the answer. You’ve got to be smart enough at your job to make a recommendation.”
This is leadership in one line: stop hiding behind neutrality, data-dump reports, or “letting the business decide.” Influence means recommending boldly, even when the politics are messy.
🤖 Steal This AI Prompt
Want to borrow Barrand’s framework to strengthen your own culture? This prompt helps you design systemic reinforcements (like gratitude rituals or innovation funds) that make culture durable:
I want to design a framework to strengthen team culture in my organization.
Please help me:
1. Identify small but high-impact gratitude practices we could systematize.
2. Suggest ways to close the feedback loop with employees (so they see their voice matters).
3. Recommend scalable “systemic reinforcements” (e.g., funds, rituals, or policies) that institutionalize culture rather than leaving it to chance.
4. Provide examples of how these ideas could work in both resource-constrained environments and well-funded organizations.